Discussion time!

"roflcopter" (roflroflroflcopter) 12/27/2014 at 13:44 • Filed to: None

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Do you think that top tier sailing pushes material technology more or less than Formula 1? These boats are made out of Kevlar Foam wrapped in Carbon Fiber, the rigging is heat extruded plastic composites that have much higher tensile strength, lower stretch, and orders of magnitude lighter than steel, the sails are CNC laid strands of individual carbon on predetermined load paths sandwiched between super thin layers of Mylar that are built on 1100 square meter molds so that they have the perfect shape while being flown.

Being a sailor all my life and racing on quite a few high-tech boats, the trickle down is MUCH faster than it ever will be for cars and this type of thing just blows my mind. So what do you think? Is it just an irrelevant way for the uber-rich to throw away money? It is something that helps us in our daily lives through technological breakthroughs? Is F1 any different?

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > roflcopter 12/27/2014 at 13:57

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I'd watch F1 if they had to use sails like that to power their cars.

Think about how much lovely, organic, free-range, green eco-cred Bernie could get!

Actually, Bernie, I want 10 million for my idea. That's 1/10 of the price you paid to say you didn't actually bribe anyone in Germany. A bargain if I ever saw one.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > roflcopter 12/27/2014 at 14:22

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F1 cars and then production cars had carbon Kevlar bodies in the 1980's. Tire tech reached it's peak in F1 in the 2000's and it's now making its way into car tires. Active Aero had been done way back into the 70's and it was experimented on street cars, but is only now really being seen on production cars due to costs and. Computers, active suspension, all of the same. The only reason why you see the racing tech on non-racing boats is the costs.

You can piss away millions on a single one-off boat and get all of the latest and greatest tech that you want, but you also don't have to meet emissions, safety, and production costs that cars do.

roflcopter > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 12/27/2014 at 14:34

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All very good points. And sailing has been using carbon/kevlar for quite some time now, along with all the specialty fibers(spectra, vectran, dyneema) that were specifically developed for it. Not having to deal with any real form of regulation is definitely a big deal when it comes to trickle down occurring. Although it could be argued that the stakes are a lot higher when you're relying on the equipment in the middle of the ocean, not on a track with safety precautions standing by.

Conan > roflcopter 12/27/2014 at 14:37

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I think SOMETIMES they both do. Sometimes they're stagnant/stuff that will never reach the public.

roflcopter > Conan 12/27/2014 at 14:43

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Having sailed all my life and currently working in the industry doing rigging work for race boats I would say that there are very few technical aspects of those super-maxi racing yachts that aren't being implemented in the lower levels of sailing.

Conan > roflcopter 12/27/2014 at 16:10

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I don't think the average person having a decent time on a small boat on the lake necessarily feels much of that stuff. It doesn't mean it isn't great that people a few steps up do though.

roflcopter > Conan 12/27/2014 at 16:18

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My Laser(a single person sailing dinghy) has carbon fiber tiller/extension and a Spectra traveller bridle.

Conan > roflcopter 12/27/2014 at 16:36

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The basic technology of the Laser is quite old though, and that's not really what your average lake cruiser is sailing.

JGrabowMSt > roflcopter 12/27/2014 at 16:40

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It certainly drives industry forward, but within that specific industry. In terms of marine application, top tier sailing competition allows for developments for lower end boats, but certainly doesnt translate well into automotive use. The computing advancements could see some usage across the industries, telemetry, gps, and some sensors as they get smaller and smaller, but the major industrial advantages wont be crossing boundaries so easily.

Thats not to say they cant, as some universals like the carbon fiber or fiberglas or molding processes will apply to both, but the automotive industry isnt capable of readily adopting too much at a time. Just look at how long it took seatbelts to become a requirement. There was a time when cars werent very fast to begin with, but now youre definitely required to wear them, and you have plenty of "idiot lights" to remind you. In sailing, the biggest advancements come down to the hull and mast design, along with their connection or integration. Then the next step is the quality of the sail materials, and then the advancements of the computer equipment. Fortunately, the marine industry hasnt required such drastic changes as the auto industry has, with far more motorists out, and roadway conditions as they are in many places. But the big advancements to the marine industry, such as sonar, radar and weather tracking equipment is largely irrelevant to motoring in general.

My boss just bought a sailboat, so I see some of these key differences as I help with working on parts of it.

roflcopter > Conan 12/27/2014 at 16:50

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True. But the average boat some lake sailor is sailing is also 25+ years old. Did you know that you can actually order a new Beneteau with PBO standing rigging?

roflcopter > JGrabowMSt 12/27/2014 at 16:53

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I wasn't really looking at the electronic systems so much as the actual materials used and all. I agree that the computer systems are very different.

Conan > roflcopter 12/27/2014 at 16:59

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Ha. You're right. And I had no idea. I've had to naturally downgrade my horizons, moving from near Lake Michigan to... near http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_Mou… ... sailing is still fun though.

JGrabowMSt > roflcopter 12/27/2014 at 19:28

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The materials I would say are pretty universally shared. Mainly from the fact that the materials arent special variants. I think the biggest source is really aerospace engineering, as the budgets are much higher for experimental composites. Just look at the cries to do fully covered cockpits for F1 cars, and the testing of tires bouncing off the window material.

Those advancements are proven in a much shorter time to be worthy of full time use. Marine and sailing benefit most, and dont have as much to bring to the table because the general requirements are so much lower than aerospace.